Show Notes
- Suppression & Survival — Packing trauma away and appearing “high-functioning,” while unresolved experiences quietly shape self-worth and behaviour over time.
- Layered Recovery — Understanding healing as a lifelong process of “unlayering,” where insights come gradually and often resurface in new ways.
- Systemic Harm & Silence — Speaking to experiences of abuse, shunning, and institutional barriers that silence survivors and reinforce isolation.
- Trauma in the Body — Recognising that trauma is not just mental, but physical—showing up through anxiety, health issues, and nervous system responses.
- From Avoidance to Awareness — Learning to face triggers with grounding tools and body-based practices rather than suppressing or escaping them.
- Community & Connection — Finding relief and validation through peer support, and realising that shared experiences across different groups are deeply similar.
- Glimmers of Joy — Embracing small moments of joy, connection, and meaning as essential parts of the healing journey.
Transcript
0:04 Welcome to this series of interviews exploring lived experiences within the Jehovah’s Witness faith. Throughout these conversations, we’ll be hearing personal stories of belief, belonging,
0:14 questioning, and life beyond the organization.
0:18 Here today to unravel the threads of their cult recovery is a warm welcome to Jen. Hi, Jen.
0:24 Hi, thank you for having me. So good to have you here.
0:34 Um,
0:36 so um just a side note for ease of listening, we’ll be abbreviating Jehovah’s Witness to JDub or JW during
0:44 this series. Um, so so cool to have you on board, Jen. Um, as far as your story,
0:52 I thought it would be really cool just if you could tell us a little bit about yourself now so we get a picture of who you are post JDub.
1:02 Okay. So, I’m a nana of four beautiful grandchildren. Um, I work full-time in
1:10 health and safety and HR, so lots of people based um, work. I’m also a
1:17 trained end of life dweller. So that’s working with people that are coming to end of life and giving them support during that process. Um I’m part of a group called NOA. So no one dies alone.
1:29 Uh and I’m also trained in Raike and in massage. So while I’m doing uh HR and
1:37 health and safety now as I’m retirement age, that’s where I’m planning to go with my life is to move it into those things.
1:44 Um Awesome. I have a little dog who’s my I would call him my service dog, but he
1:52 hasn’t got the proper title, but he’s a great companion. Yeah.
1:56 And I have a good base of friends and a really great social life. So, yeah, got a good life. Thank you.
2:05 Can you um give us a brief background of your experience in the Jehovah’s Witness cult?
2:12 So, I was born into the cult. Um, my mom and dad were both Jehovah’s Witnesses.
2:17 They came into it, my mom was a solo mom. Uh, she had two boys, one to her
2:25 first husband and another one through a relationship. And the person involved um refused to marry her even though she she
2:33 didn’t tell him she was actually pregnant with my brother. And she was very lucky cuz we’re talking about an
2:39 era where solo mothers were not and and ones that had had children out of wedlock were not very socially acceptable. But she had really close
2:48 in-laws who kept tight around her. But she still felt really lonely. Sitting at a bus stop one day and this woman starts to talk to her about love and joy and
2:57 support and Jesus and God. and it she was extremely vulnerable and it gave her a security blanket for how she was
3:05 feeling at the time. So she joined the Jehovah’s Witness faith.
3:17 My father was brought up Presbyterian and Anglican. Uh he was kept at home to look after my nana who was quite sick. And so then eventually when the war came around he
3:26 became a conscientious objector and refused to go to war.
3:38 As a conscientious objector in New Zealand, they were actually put into a camp in the North Island.
3:44 And while he was in there, there was Jehovah’s Witnesses in there because they abstained from war. And again, he was in a very vulnerable position and
3:52 they pulled him to being a Jehovah’s Witness.
4:01 He later met my mom and they decided to move from the North Island down to North Canterbury and start a Jehovah’s Witness church.
4:15 So they started it.
4:24 Dad was also part of Bethel, the central organizational group.
4:27 So they moved down. One of my half brothers followed, but the older one stayed up north.
4:36 Then mom and dad had me. My first memories were going to meetings, not really understanding them.
4:55 Over time, you get inducted into the belief system. You’re told what you’re allowed to do and not do.
5:08 Eventually, you start to believe you can’t do anything outside of it. You don’t have free choice.
5:26 I had a questioning mind, but that was against the rules.
5:42 There was a lot of fear instilled. My parents were very strict in their beliefs.
5:58 I became a people pleaser and got baptized at a large convention.
6:24 I passed the tests with flying colors because I believed I had to be perfect.
6:43 I started pioneering—going door to door—at around age 15.
6:58 Eventually, I began questioning how people were treated.
7:13 I knew something that happened to me was wrong, but no one acknowledged it.
7:36 I started rebelling—drinking, going out—and was caught.
7:51 I was publicly reproved and shamed at a meeting.
8:04 That became the first step toward leaving.
8:22 I realized I could be human outside of the system.
8:30 I got a full-time job and met my future husband.
8:52 Because I was with a non-believer, I was disfellowshipped.
9:14 It was awful—overnight I lost my entire support system.
9:28 I became dependent on my partner and his family.
9:37 That environment was also toxic, with emotional and verbal abuse.
9:55 I repeated patterns from my upbringing without realizing it.
10:21 The support I found didn’t truly understand what I had gone through.
10:37 My vulnerability was manipulated.
10:55 Many things I do now would have been completely forbidden.
11:10 Education, independence, and autonomy were discouraged, especially for women.
11:39 Abuse was often justified within the belief system.
11:52 The biggest challenge after leaving was decision-making.
12:07 I had to relearn how to trust myself.
12:20 Everything had been controlled—beliefs, clothing, behavior.
12:46 Fear of Armageddon was used to enforce obedience.
13:02 It wasn’t until much later in life I realized I could make my own decisions.
13:30 It took decades to understand how deeply ingrained everything was.
13:39 I left at 15 and I’m now 66.
13:53 That shows how long trauma can last.
14:21 I began untangling my identity by experimenting—sometimes recklessly.
14:47 I pushed boundaries and explored life intensely.
15:10 It was a reaction to being restricted for so long.
15:24 Music and dancing became expressions of freedom.
15:40 I didn’t understand the signals I was sending or the situations I was entering.
15:56 I learned through difficult experiences.
16:11 It was about testing limits and learning from consequences.
16:24 I also didn’t realize the impact of abuse I had experienced within the cult.
16:25 And I didn’t I had shut that in a box and put the lid on it and I had a really big padlock on it from from an emotional perspective.
16:34 Yeah.
16:34 Um and I didn’t realize also the effect that was in some of that in the background was having as well. So there
16:42 was a lot of behavior of not feeling worthy also. So there was some of that driving some of that kind
16:49 of wild behavior as well. It’s taken me a long time to click to how that all fits together.
16:55 Yeah, for sure. And I’m I’m wondering about um when you started to untangle all of that.
17:05 Um it’s I think it’s been a journey. Yeah, I think it’s been a lifelong journey. It’s layers.
17:13 Yeah,
17:14 when they say unlayer the onion, it’s not wrong. It is one layer at a time.
17:18 And you think sometimes you unlayer a bit and you go, “Oh, yeah, that’s it.” And then something happens and you go,
17:23 “Oh, maybe that wasn’t it. That was just the first layer of that bit.”
17:26 Um, and it’s okay. The thing I would say when you start to untangle yourself is get really good support. When I left,
17:37 I didn’t understand enough. There wasn’t support outside because I didn’t even know anybody else that had got out of the cult at that stage.
17:43 And so while I had my partner’s family around me, they didn’t understand my behavior. They didn’t understand what was going on.
17:52 So that was no real support in untangling.
18:00 Right. I’m trying to think where my probably in all honesty,
18:09 my daughter was a victim of a violent crime and during that time I was helping support her, I was actually falling to pieces inside myself and I didn’t realize.
18:24 And once at the end of about two years after a traumatic incident, you hit that point where you fall apart.
18:32 At that two-year mark, I was sitting in meetings, running meetings in my job, running an office—high functioning.
18:42 Yeah.
18:43 And I was sitting in a meeting and I’d just burst into tears and I’d be like,
18:46 “Why am I crying? I don’t know why I’m crying.”
18:48 So, I went to the counselor that my daughter had been to.
18:53 And that’s probably the first in-depth untangling I started,
18:58 was to actually recognize that all of this stuff that had happened behind me was actually having an effect.
19:08 Emotionally, mentally, spiritually,
19:10 and definitely physically.
19:20 And that’s one thing—your body holds the score.
19:20 Yes.
19:20 And I cannot say that enough.
19:26 You might be high functioning in front of people,
19:38 but your body will be holding that in some form or another.
19:44 And the sooner you get support and help, the healthier, happier, more joyful your life can be.
19:49 Because you don’t realize until you start untangling it in depth.
19:58 Recovery isn’t linear. It’s a lifelong journey.
20:05 When you’re going through everyday life now, how do you handle triggers?
20:15 I have a psychologist I’m seeing now. I used to avoid triggers completely.
20:24 If something came up, I’d shove it back down and keep busy.
20:32 Overeating, undereating, always busy, never still.
20:41 High functioning at work, studying intensely.
20:49 For example, I worked 30 hours and studied 30 hours a week. I had an A+ average.
20:56 Overachieving—but it was masking.
21:01 It gave me language for things I felt but couldn’t name.
21:14 But it was still a distraction.
21:22 Totally masking.
21:27 People didn’t know anything was going on because I appeared capable and organized.
21:36 Everything I did was a distraction.
21:46 A lot of people leave and just shut that chapter completely.
22:01 That’s a common thread with survivors.
22:10 It can take years before realizing you need to deal with it.
22:25 Now I’m working on not hiding from triggers.
22:32 Because you can’t heal if you avoid them.
22:37 It shows up in the body—autoimmune issues, stress responses.
22:51 I’ve learned grounding techniques.
22:59 One is the “butterfly” method—cross your thumbs and tap your chest.
23:04 It slows your heart rate and brings you into the present moment.
23:17 Then you can ask: where am I feeling this? Why?
23:33 And decide what support you need.
23:47 Sit in the emotion. Don’t avoid it.
23:58 It can be scary, but it’s necessary.
24:07 Another method is tensing and releasing muscle groups.
24:24 It helps move you out of fight-or-flight.
24:32 There’s also freeze—common for cult survivors.
24:45 Tools help you process instead of shutting down.
25:04 Some use visualization like armor, but that can also reinforce isolation.
25:19 Isolation is a big pattern.
25:27 So I use those tools carefully.
25:35 There’s also “fawn”—people pleasing as a trauma response.
25:49 Agreeing just to keep the peace.
26:09 I’ve caught myself doing that recently.
26:20 It comes from fear of abandonment and not feeling worthy.
26:36 Even small feedback can feel deeply personal.
26:53 You agree even when you don’t, just to be “good.”
27:02 It’s very common among cult survivors.
27:22 It can make you a great team player—but you need boundaries.
27:46 Otherwise, you lose yourself.
27:55 JDubs are taught to see outsiders as “worldly.”
28:10 Women are taught to be obedient and never say no.
28:25 This puts women in dangerous situations.
28:43 It does make them vulnerable.
28:50 There are ongoing inquiries into abuse within the organization.
29:08 My own experience was within the family home.
29:25 It happened very young, before I even had language for it.
29:32 I didn’t understand it until much later in counseling.
29:42 I minimized it because I was taught to.
29:48 My second experience involved an elder.
29:56 We were sent away with him to conventions.
30:04 We were told it was okay, but we couldn’t talk about it.
30:11 And also instilled fear not to talk about it because we were the ones that were wrong, so we kind of encouraged it and it was our fault, right?
30:19 And that sticks. And the problem is within the JDub cult, when anybody—if this happens—and they bring it to the elders, you have to take a witness.
30:36 So when you go and talk to them about it, you have to take a witness. So if you’re told that, there’s no way that you would go in front of them.
30:44 Right?
30:45 So you have to have the perpetrator and the witness in the room with you.
30:51 Even in court, if you can’t face the perpetrator, they will put a screen up to protect your vulnerability.
31:05 But in a supposedly Christian and loving environment, they put you in the same room and tell you that you have to have someone else that saw it happen.
31:14 No.
31:15 And blame you at the same time.
31:17 That is really shocking to hear. I’m really sorry you went through that.
31:25 Is this something that affects only women, or children as well?
31:40 It affects children as well. It affects both sexes, and people who are gay—anything outside heterosexual norms.
31:56 There is no support. It doesn’t go to the police.
31:59 They hide perpetrators within the group. This is what the commission of inquiry has found.
32:07 Elders were told to destroy evidence.
32:17 This isn’t just my experience—this comes from inquiry findings and testimonies.
32:28 Trigger warning—statistics show patterns in abuse shifting across age and gender.
33:01 The evidence shows perpetrators are not tied to one sex—they shift based on opportunity.
33:09 That’s something not talked about enough—the mechanics of it.
33:15 And availability plays a role. I was made available by my parents.
33:30 You’re often left with people you’re told to trust—and sometimes that trust is broken.
33:42 Can you explain dysfellowshipping and how you’ve built a life outside it?
34:00 Dysfellowshipping, or shunning, happens when you step outside the rules.
34:07 It could be accepting a blood transfusion, sex outside marriage, smoking, gambling.
34:29 If it’s public or ongoing, you’re brought before elders.
34:45 If they decide you’re not repentant, you are shunned.
35:06 You can attend meetings, but no one will talk to you.
35:21 Even within family, treatment changes based on belief status.
35:37 I left home young because it became unbearable.
36:03 You grow up quickly in that situation.
36:13 They may return during vulnerable times to try to bring you back.
36:24 For example, after the earthquakes, an elder showed up asking if I’d return.
36:59 When my parents passed, I was allowed to attend but not participate.
37:19 I wasn’t allowed to speak at my father’s service.
37:38 At my mother’s funeral, I was told I couldn’t speak—and if I did, people would walk out.
38:17 There was no space to honour her story.
38:41 That has stayed with me.
38:53 I was even told that this was my “last chance” to return.
39:11 I said no.
39:20 There’s a lot of judgment in that system.
39:31 JWs are taught the world is under Satan’s control and the end is near.
39:59 When did you realize that wasn’t true?
40:09 The first few years out were chaotic—finding my way.
40:21 I experienced new things—education, dancing, freedom.
40:32 I realized I wasn’t being punished for living normally.
40:47 The world didn’t end when it was supposed to.
40:55 That made me question everything I’d been taught.
41:06 I began to see those teachings as control mechanisms.
41:23 I explored other beliefs and built my own values.
41:51 Having a child changed everything—it made me question what I would pass on.
42:20 I knew what I didn’t want to repeat.
42:36 I had to define my own beliefs from scratch.
42:53 Questioning became freedom.
43:09 My 20s and 30s became a time of exploration.
43:25 Trying things I never could before—it was liberating.
43:40 Even with triggers, there was joy too.
43:47 What was your first “forbidden” celebration?
43:57 Singing happy birthday in class as a child.
44:05 It was about fitting in.
44:16 That memory still feels emotional.
44:25 Then my first Christmas—I went all out with gifts.
44:41 It was joyful and meaningful.
44:56 Later, celebrating with my own children became very special.
45:13 That shared excitement and joy was unforgettable.
45:27 How do you feel now about celebrating yourself?
45:35 That’s a deeper question—it goes beyond birthdays.
45:46 Self-worth and pride don’t come easily after that upbringing.
45:58 Um believing in yourself does not come easy.
45:58 There’s still moments now where I might have done something which is amazing and I still don’t think it’s enough.
46:06 Yeah. It’s not enough. I should do more. Yeah. Um, and that’s that’s through over time,
46:14 like as a parent, beating yourself up as a parent. My daughter is the most amazing creature. She has taught me so much about being accepting of yourself.
46:25 Yeah.
46:26 And she’s had her fair share of traumas over time and has uh ended up being on the getting herself in a bit of trouble with drugs and alcohol and what have you. and she’s now a mom of three beautiful kids and she’s freaking amazing as a mother.
46:45 She’s she teaches me, right? So, yes. Yeah.
46:54 Okay. I just want to you you um you you talked earlier about the butterfly technique um which I found really
47:02 interesting. Have you are there any other specific grounding techniques or physical practices that help you, you
47:11 know, help you harness your nervous system when you feel a trauma response coming on?
47:16 Um, I did an amazing course called Intuitive Mastery, right,
47:20 with a lady called Rebecca Davidson. And part of that we learned, you could call it a meditation.
47:28 And what you do is you you sit you take some really nice deep breaths and then you take your eyes and your thoughts right up miles and miles up into the
47:37 above the stars and you think about light coming down and you bring it down and you take it on a journey through
47:44 your body um through your crown and it talks about chakras which are nervous energy centers
47:51 where they they have medical names but um they’re called chakras in my terminology and take it the light
47:58 through your body and then take it right down through your legs and down into the ground. And you imagine roots going into the ground. Yeah.
48:07 Big thick chunky roots wrapped around tree roots right down into the ground.
48:14 So you’re part of the energy that’s within the soil, the trees and all the energy from the people around you.
48:21 And then you bring it back up to your heart and then you spread it out and you go out. And when you start thinking about spreading it out, it connects you
48:29 to people and to nature and all of those things. Then take it right out as far out as you can. Just keep imagining it going further and further.
48:40 The grounding your roots into the earth and going out this way gives you such a feeling of belonging and being part of a
48:48 bigger picture in a really positive way. And that helps calm if especially for me my
48:57 anxiety shows as pins and needles across my shoulders.
49:00 Um and it will get rid of that just just about instantly as soon as I start grounding myself. Walking barefoot on the dirt.
49:08 Oh yeah. That’s really good stuff. Yeah.
49:11 Walking’s really good. Physical exercise is good. But not and this side
49:19 say not doing physical exercise as a punishment. And it’s really easy to fall into that trap of doing physical
49:27 exercise which is and I’m not saying don’t go running till you sweat or going to the gym till you’re lifting heavy weights but doing it for a joy not as a
49:36 punishment because that’s a really easy thing to to slip into. Right. It should be for joy.
49:42 Yeah. Absolutely.
49:45 cults often use thought stopping phrases to discourage critical thinking. Um,
49:53 was there any specific kind of thought stopping techniques that you had to unlearn and what did you replace them with?
50:03 Um, if you think like that demons will get in, right?
50:07 Oh, that’s a goodie. So meditating open blank mind demons will get in. I had to fight that when I first started
50:16 meditating because it would just overpower what I was thinking.
50:20 Um and what I was trying to accomplish which was to clear all that busyness out of my mind. As I said before, I was always busy.
50:27 Yes. Um I think that was a big even with doing even now with doing raiki and doing all
50:35 that kind of what energy type healing type of stuff massage even um
50:42 just not letting that that kind of thought pop into my head just pushing that away somewhere cuz it’s wrong.
50:50 Yeah.
50:51 Um and probably the other one about non-believer. So if you if you do that you’re a non-believer. you’re not,
50:59 you know, you’re you’re wrong in doing that. Yeah. Um Yeah. That non-believer thing.
51:06 Being Yeah. I think that probably is a biggie.
51:15 In another group, similar teachings discouraged reading other beliefs, saying demons would enter through your senses.
51:32 It’s very similar across different high-control groups.
51:40 Yeah, absolutely.
51:44 What would you say to your younger self when you first left?
52:19 I would say: find support. Don’t do it alone.
52:43 It was very lonely leaving without knowing anyone else who had left.
52:58 Get support early. Don’t leave it too long.
53:14 Counseling helped, but I wish I had focused more on how the cult shaped my behavior.
53:25 Find the right therapist—someone who isn’t afraid of the trauma.
53:52 I’ve finally found that person now.
54:07 She helps me face triggers and gives me tools without letting me avoid them.
54:20 It’s been transformative.
54:31 Being part of peer support like Uncult has also been powerful.
54:51 Hearing others’ stories showed me I wasn’t alone.
55:03 The patterns across cults are the same—manipulation, vulnerability.
55:19 That shared experience changed how I see my own story.
55:32 I no longer feel alone.
55:47 Reaching out to others has been incredibly healing.
56:11 Letting people know they’re not alone is so important.
56:22 The group offers guidance, not answers.
56:48 It’s a safe, supportive space.
57:10 If it helps even one person, it matters.
57:31 Joining was scary, but the support has been incredible.
57:55 That’s the purpose of sharing these stories—to help others find support sooner.
58:12 Earlier support can prevent harmful coping mechanisms.
58:25 Another thing—people can fall back into similar dynamics even after leaving.
58:53 Diverse groups help prevent that.
59:03 It’s about recovery and growth.
59:26 What should people understand about survivors?
59:43 They are vulnerable.
59:53 They may feel deeply alone.
1:00:05 Be patient. Be kind. Don’t judge.
1:00:11 Offer guidance gently.
1:00:20 Ask simple, supportive questions.
1:00:44 Survivors are often in survival mode.
1:00:55 Safety is essential.
1:01:01 That’s a powerful note to end on.
1:01:11 This has been an incredibly meaningful conversation.
1:01:40 Recovery takes time, but there is joy along the way.
1:01:53 There are “glimmers”—moments of light.
1:02:18 Those moments give hope.
1:02:26 They help counter the tendency to catastrophize.
1:02:34 There are gifts everywhere.
1:02:42 Thank you so much for sharing your story.
1:02:48 Thank you for having me. It’s been a beautiful experience.
1:02:52 That concludes today’s interview with Jen. Stay tuned for more.
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