Show Notes
- Leaving a high-control world behind — Tristan reflects on growing up within a controlling religious environment and the gradual process of stepping outside of it into a life he could define for himself.
- Finding connection beyond ideology — He shares how relationships with people outside his former group, including advocates working in related harm-prevention spaces, helped rebuild trust, meaning, and support.
- Creativity as a form of healing — Tristan discusses how making art from old vinyl records became a cathartic outlet, offering both escape and a way to process emotions and rediscover creativity.
- Movement, music, and flow states — A look into how long-distance running, music, and time in nature create grounding “escape” states that support mental clarity and emotional recovery.
- Learning to be alone — He reflects on the power of being comfortable in your own company, and how solitude became a strength rather than something to fear.
- Rebuilding trust after leaving — Tristan opens up about the doubts and fears that lingered after leaving, and how lived experience, friendships, and perspective helped him reorient his sense of reality.
- Family, separation, and reconnection — He speaks about leaving alongside his brother, maintaining relationships with his parents, and the unexpected shift when his parents later also left the group.
- Advocacy, harm, and speaking out — A candid discussion about speaking publicly on abuse, especially male survivors, and the importance of breaking stigma around underreported harm.
Transcript
0:06 Hi and welcome to Unspun. Today we have a very special guest, Tristan Phipps, a cult survivor and advocate for cult survivors in the advocacy space.
0:15 Tristan was born and raised in a high-control religious group known as the 2×2 church.
0:24 After being out for more than 20 years, he has taken a new path in recovery through advocacy.
0:32 Over the past two years he has been raising awareness around religious trauma, indoctrination, coercive control, high-control groups, and men’s mental health.
0:41 His advocacy began when abuse within the 2×2 church entered public news cycles.
0:49 At the time, many communities had no idea the group existed and few were publicly naming it.
0:57 What started in online support groups grew into media appearances, podcasts, and ongoing social media work.
1:03 Outside of advocacy, he finds healing in music, DJing, long-distance trail running, and creating art.
1:10 From September, he will also become a dad and welcome a new arrival into his family.
1:17 Congratulations, Tristan.
1:23 Thanks, bro. Good to see you again.
1:25 We’ve connected a few times and shared thoughts on different things.
1:32 Today we want to focus on the recovery side of things and go deeper into that.
1:39 So we’ll spend less time on where you came from and more on your experience of recovery.
1:46 Can you give us a brief overview of the group you were part of?
1:59 The 2×2 church is a high-control religious group, sometimes described as a cult by former members.
2:06 I was born and raised fifth generation into it.
2:13 It’s often called the “church with no name,” a home-based fundamentalist group.
2:20 Preachers go out two by two, without possessions, staying in members’ homes.
2:29 Meetings happen in homes or community spaces rather than church buildings.
2:38 They stay in a congregation for a few weeks before moving on.
2:46 The organisation is funded by members and not formally registered as a charity or entity.
3:02 There is no official registered structure, despite being highly organised in practice.
3:09 The “2×2” name comes from outsiders and the media.
3:16 It operates as a loosely defined but structured belief system with clear internal rules.
3:32 It presents as a simple community of believers but has a strong internal hierarchy.
3:41 That’s interesting, because other groups often register as charities for funding and structure.
3:54 Your group is similar to others I’ve seen in terms of avoiding formal registration.
4:02 In my own experience with another group, that dynamic played out differently but similarly.
4:11 During COVID some groups moved toward charity registration, but not all.
4:28 So within your group, who actually holds the power?
4:48 There is a hierarchy, with workers or preachers at the top.
4:55 They are seen as the ones who interpret the word of God.
5:04 Their message is central, and members attend meetings frequently to hear it.
5:12 Overseers sit above regional structures, including countries or regions.
5:26 Overseers and head workers are always male.
5:34 Female and junior workers exist but hold less authority.
5:42 Local elders manage meetings within homes.
5:50 The structure is male dominated, with no female overseers historically.
6:00 So it’s a clearly patriarchal setup.
6:07 What are your earliest memories of anything that felt different growing up in it?
6:16 It’s hard to pinpoint because you normalize it when you’re born into it.
6:32 Some memories are distant or blurred because you block things out.
6:47 As a child, you don’t realise you’re part of something unusual.
6:59 Your experience depends on how strictly your family follows the rules.
7:08 Every family interprets the system slightly differently.
7:23 In my case it was relatively mild or progressive compared to others.
7:40 Some things we did weren’t strictly allowed, so it felt both normal and not normal.
7:48 Sunday meetings twice a week made it different from other kids’ lives.
8:04 There was also a belief we were chosen and had a direct path to heaven.
8:19 At the same time, I still went to school and mixed with other kids.
8:35 So you were “in the world but not of the world.”
8:43 As a child you don’t see the messaging clearly at first.
8:54 When did the first cracks start to appear for you?
9:12 Looking back, I was never fully invested in it.
9:39 I never really felt it was true or that God was speaking to me.
9:45 I was more just going through the motions.
9:59 There wasn’t a single moment it broke — it was always partial.
10:15 Fear sat in the background that kept you participating.
10:26 So physically in, mentally not fully in.
10:41 Was that fear mainly about going to hell?
10:49 Yes — the belief you were in the only chosen group with access to heaven.
10:55 As a child, that kind of idea is very powerful and frightening.
11:03 Even when I wasn’t fully invested, there was still a strong underlying fear of missing out or something terrible happening if I left.
11:11 That fear included spiritual consequences as well as fear of social and family backlash.
11:16 In high-control groups like this, leaving can come with significant consequences, including shunning or emotional cutoff.
11:27 There are cases of separation, but often it’s also the language and treatment within families that creates distance.
11:48 It creates a constant push and pull between loyalty, fear, and uncertainty.
11:51 The unknown is a major factor—you’re constantly weighing what happens if you step away.
12:00 Indoctrination can be strong enough that you feel stuck, even when part of you wants out.
12:08 You weren’t fully invested, but the system was still doing its job in keeping you inside.
12:18 How did you manage your doubts at that stage?
12:33 I would often silence them because I didn’t feel I had enough certainty to act on them.
12:41 Fear of consequences and fear of losing family played a big role in suppressing questions.
12:57 But as you get older, those questions naturally start to build and demand attention.
13:07 Eventually you reach a point where you start taking control of your own decisions.
13:22 I began to realise the situation wasn’t healthy, even if I couldn’t fully explain it at first.
13:38 It felt like being stuck in a confusing in-between state—lost, uncertain, and conflicted.
13:53 That sense of “no man’s land” is a good way to describe it.
14:02 Eventually you start asking what you actually want for your own life.
14:12 There were parts of it I had pushed away, but also a growing sense of dissatisfaction.
14:23 I wasn’t happy, and I was essentially living life for other people.
14:32 There had to be more than a life based purely on rules and expectations.
15:11 After leaving, what beliefs or behaviours were hardest to unlearn?
15:18 It wasn’t religious belief so much as behavioural conditioning.
15:25 People-pleasing, overthinking, and difficulty making independent decisions were the hardest to break.
15:33 I also struggled with constant self-doubt and seeking external approval.
15:43 These patterns are very common among people leaving similar environments.
15:50 In groups like this, saying no is rarely encouraged or even possible.
15:58 Life becomes centred around service and compliance.
16:07 You’re expected to prioritise the group over your own needs.
16:17 That creates deep difficulty in forming personal boundaries.
16:24 Even simple decisions outside the group can feel unsafe or uncertain.
16:33 There’s often fear that choosing differently means choosing wrongly.
16:41 Boundaries were essentially absent, which made adjustment difficult later.
16:50 I had no real sense of personal boundaries at the time.
16:59 When did you start recognising this as a system rather than just personal struggle?
17:16 At first, it was very internal—focused on my own unraveling and recovery.
17:23 That process involved going to difficult places emotionally and getting professional help.
17:31 There was also a period of exploration and trying to rebuild a normal life.
17:40 I didn’t experience a sudden break—more a gradual transition into normality.
17:48 I had already experienced parts of normal life before leaving fully.
17:57 So in some ways, the transition into “normal life” felt quite seamless.
18:04 The deeper deconstruction came later.
18:11 I needed time to step away before revisiting everything in detail.
18:18 I also used distraction and coping mechanisms during that time.
18:21 Alcohol was one of the ways I coped, not excessively, but as numbing.
18:30 It helped in the short term, but it wasn’t a long-term solution.
18:43 Eventually, I had to go back and unpack everything properly.
18:51 That meant examining behaviours, conditioning, and learned responses.
19:10 Why was I a people-pleaser? Where did these patterns come from?
19:25 It required deconstructing the system that shaped me.
19:37 Did you experience depression after leaving?
19:47 Yes, and at first I didn’t understand what I was experiencing.
19:55 Getting professional help made it clearer and more manageable.
20:02 In some cases, medication helped stabilise things temporarily.
20:08 Counselling and therapy provided tools for navigating it.
20:16 It helped me understand what I was going through and how to move through it.
20:25 There was a period where I was unwell without realising it.
20:32 I had a persistent sense of sadness that I couldn’t explain at the time.
20:41 Was that what led you to seek help?
20:45 My marriage ended not long after leaving, which added another major transition.
20:52 I had married someone within the group, which is quite common.
21:03 That separation, along with leaving the group, made it a major life reset.
21:12 It was a combination of factors that pushed everything into a rebuilding phase.
21:14 And did you seek help from a psychologist privately yourself or go through your GP?
21:23 A mixture of both—through my GP initially, and then I was able to see someone privately as well.
21:29 That was a big step. It was quite a journey and quite scary at first, talking about things that in groups like the 2x2s you’re told are spiritual issues rather than mental health ones.
21:39 In those environments, if you’re struggling, you’re told your spirit isn’t right, or you’re not praying enough, or reading enough.
21:46 Those conversations just don’t really happen, especially for men.
21:50 There’s this expectation that you’re tough, strong, and you push through—something that exists in wider society too, but is very pronounced in those communities.
21:58 So getting help outside of the system you’re “meant” to get help from is a big shift.
22:07 But I didn’t feel shame about it or anything like that.
22:12 It actually became necessary, because I reached a point where I didn’t want to be alive anymore.
22:20 That was a frightening realisation, and it should be frightening.
22:24 That fear was what made me think, okay—I need to do something about this.
22:32 So you had thoughts of suicide?
22:33 Absolutely. Yeah.
22:38 Even though I had good people around me, I was still feeling that way.
22:44 Life wasn’t terrible on the surface—I had friends, family connections, and things were okay in many ways.
22:49 I left the group, I still had relationships, and I wasn’t experiencing extreme shunning like others do.
23:00 But despite all that, I still felt that way internally, which was confusing.
23:07 Good things were happening, but I still didn’t feel okay.
23:16 Suicidal ideation was something I struggled with for a long time.
23:22 Counselling helped over time, but a lot of it came down to friends really showing up for me.
23:32 Ultimately, it was the people around me who helped keep me alive, and I’m very grateful for that.
23:41 What strategies did you learn in counselling that helped?
23:59 One of the biggest takeaways was learning that some days you’re just not okay—and that’s okay.
24:15 You don’t need to analyse every feeling or try to explain it in detail.
24:24 Sometimes you just feel off, and that’s enough to acknowledge.
24:30 Sitting and over-analysing why you feel that way often doesn’t help.
24:37 For me, it was about learning not to spiral into constant self-examination.
24:46 Being honest about how you’re feeling is important—you don’t always have to mask it.
24:56 In the group, I spent years putting on a brave face, which became exhausting.
25:08 That constant masking is emotionally draining over time.
25:12 So learning that it’s okay to just say “I’m not okay today” was huge.
25:19 You don’t need to force yourself into fixing it immediately.
25:22 Sometimes you just accept the day for what it is.
25:30 Before therapy, I would ruminate constantly and try to rationalise everything.
25:45 That often made things worse rather than better.
25:54 Therapy helped me understand that it’s okay to not be okay.
26:02 That simple idea had a big impact once I actually accepted it.
26:10 The next step was figuring out what actually brings you some sense of relief or joy.
26:18 It didn’t need to be anything big—small things counted too.
26:28 It could be mowing the lawns, eating toast, or sitting in the sun.
26:31 Those moments don’t fix everything, but they help in small ways.
26:41 You learn what helps you, even if it only works temporarily.
26:47 It becomes part of self-discovery—learning what actually affects your state of mind.
26:55 I didn’t really know what those things were for me at first.
27:04 Sometimes it’s as simple as reading in the sun or taking a quiet moment.
27:16 For you, music and art became a major part of that, right?
27:23 Music was actually restricted in the group—you weren’t supposed to engage with it.
27:34 In my family there was some exposure, but overall it was seen as something negative.
27:42 I never experienced music as evil—it was always a safe space for me.
27:50 I would lie in bed listening to music for hours as a way of escaping.
27:58 That relationship with music continued even after leaving.
28:08 I’ve spoken with other survivors who had very similar experiences with music in the group.
28:16 They also engaged with it quietly or secretly, despite the rules.
28:25 Music became something that brought joy and understanding rather than guilt.
28:32 It was something people would connect over, even across different countries and experiences.
28:41 That shared experience of music created connection and recognition.
28:50 For me, it eventually grew into DJing and radio work after leaving.
28:59 It developed into meeting people, learning skills, and building something creative.
29:16 But at its core, it was always a safe place I could return to.
29:21 Something that helped regulate how I felt and gave me relief.
29:29 You also run a podcast called Five Servings of Truth.
29:33 Yes, I do.
29:40 And you also do advocacy work around male sexual abuse and related issues.
29:47 Can you tell us about your work with Road to Healing and similar spaces?
29:56 Over the past few years, I’ve found that my story overlaps with a lot of different advocacy spaces.
30:05 There are strong connections between my experience and wider issues in similar groups.
30:13 One of those areas is the long history of sexual abuse within the 2×2 group.
30:20 In recent years, more of that has come into public awareness through charges and media coverage.
30:29 Unfortunately, abuse is a common pattern in many high-control environments.
30:37 That’s why advocacy work across different survivor groups often overlaps and connects.
30:45 I have connected with lots of cool people but particularly the road to healing altered I connected with Sam who I don’t even know how it started it was
30:54 I believe it was on Instagram and he was doing one of his walks and yeah and you know we’ve become big supporters of each other because
31:01 even though his his push is just around sexual harm the overlap is coercive control manipulation you know, and these are all the sorts of
31:09 ideologies and behaviors that happen within high control groups that the end point is is abuse. So, there’s the overlap.
31:17 And when you connect with someone and yeah, you support each other, the message is the same. There’s a vibe
31:23 there. So, it’s been cool to connect and work with other people within the space that’s not just around
31:31 religion or high control groups, but the overlap’s the same. And you share resources because the the healing and the help is the same. Exactly.
31:38 For someone who’s been harmed, whether they’ve been part of a church group or not. Yeah.
31:42 Those services are the same. So, it’s it’s Yeah. Yeah. Awesome to meet these people.
31:48 Yeah. No, I I really admire the work that Sam’s doing and and those other guys that you work with. Um, I follow I follow I follow all of their stuff. And
31:57 um you know as as as a as a sexual abuse victim myself, you know, I I speak out
32:03 quite quite publicly and and as often as I get given an opportunity to talk about
32:09 it because it it it’s so under reported and not well known about the level of
32:18 just how much sexual abuse that males are subject to.
32:24 Um, and I think it, you know, it’s it’s almost like one of the last taboos and there’s a lot of stigma around it and I
32:31 really admire what you and Sam and the other guys are doing and and I, you know, carry on.
32:38 Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you. No, that Yeah. Um, you mentioned Sam and yeah, shouts out to him. So, I mean, this this
32:44 this would go some way to talking about, you know, I want to I want to ask you how did you how did you begin creating
32:51 safety and connection and meaning outside your group? And you’ve you’ve sort of stated music was one of them, art was another. So, you you have this
33:00 um you you make art out of vinyl records, which is
33:07 super meta, I guess, because you love music. And um yeah, talk talk to me a little bit about your art.
33:14 Yeah, so that’s sort of been something that’s happened in the last five or six years. Just I mean, everyone’s an artist
33:21 in some way. Everyone’s got creative creativity inside them. And and it just spawned from bits of plastic, some old scratch
33:29 records that I was given through my mate at the music shop that were unplayable, damaged, and then making stencils and getting spray paints and creating
33:38 designs and having a bit of a go and going, “Oh, that looks kind of cool.” And then people, you know, feedback is always people like, “Wa, that’s really cool.” Cuz in ourselves,
33:46 we don’t think we’re very creative. We don’t think we can do much. And you make something and someone sees it and it’s that sort of that. Yeah, it it’s just another outlet as well, I guess.
33:57 Um, yeah. So, that’s sort of only been in the last five or six years. It’s such a buzz when you make someone something and someone loves it or in a few times
34:06 someone has actually brought something, which is really really cool to know that something you created, someone loves it that much they want to hang it on their wall.
34:13 There’s there’s such a a cathartic process.
34:17 And I mean the the art the making of art is a cathartic process and is would you say the music and the I mean surely the
34:27 music was a safe space to go but you know did you find that making the art helped you heal in some way. It’s just I
34:36 find it so relaxing so I can just go out into the garage put some music on but sometimes I have no idea what I’m doing.
34:45 Absolutely no idea. and I’ll just freestyle and make something and sometimes it’s like, “Yeah, that’s really cool.” Sometimes it goes a bit wonky and you end up,
34:53 I don’t know, trying to fix it or whatever. But it is absolutely a healing process. Absolutely. 100%. Mhm.
35:00 Um being creative, um visualizing things, imagining things in your mind, having the music going,
35:09 being in a Yeah, it’s it definitely is for for me for me. I’m I’m sure for others as well, but definitely a healing space. Um, keeping your brain working.
35:18 Um, seeing colors, imagining things. Um, yeah, it’s it’s just again like like my
35:27 running, like my music, it’s an escape for x amount of time to take your mind and put it somewhere else.
35:34 And then if you create something good out of that time, awesome. Sometimes you might spend two hours out there, think you’ve done the most amazing thing, and
35:43 then you ruin it or whatever, and you’re like, “Oh my god, so good.” But yeah, I for what it is and what I use it for, I love it.
35:52 Yeah. And you you and you also talk about, so you’re also quite a a fitness orientated guy and so you do a lot of um
36:00 long-distance running. um that that also must be very um healing you know that
36:08 the I’ I’ve found so when I go tramping I don’t do running but I don’t like
36:14 running why um I like tramping I like snowboarding um and when when I’m in the
36:22 sort of flow state you know your sort of mind wanders off and you don’t think
36:30 about anything in particular sometimes you don’t about anything at all. Mhm.
36:34 Um and you know it’s akin to meditation almost. Yes.
36:39 Um which is something I find very difficult now because the meditation in in Fong Gong was um abusive.
36:48 Yeah. Yeah. Um very triggering for you probably.
36:52 Yeah. So I I find I find meditating now very difficult. But I do find things like cramping and snowboarding. And do you do you find that the same with your
37:00 running? Yeah, absolutely. So that’s I’d say that’d be something I’ve been doing probably for the last 15 years now, right?
37:09 Um more in the last few years, trail running. Mhm.
37:13 But running in general, it it’s the same as art is the same as the music, you know, getting that professional help
37:20 when I did finding those things. It was the running and the music. Of course, arts come later, but what made you it’s
37:28 endorphins. What makes you feel good on a terrible day? You can just go run for 20 minutes and while listening to music.
37:35 Yeah, I always listen to music and you just feel so much better. But it’s the same as the music and the art. It’s an escape. It’s just to take yourself out
37:42 and as you say, go out in nature. It’s the movement. It’s all of it combined. Your mind can think about the music.
37:52 Your mind can think about absolutely nothing.
37:54 Mhm. you. I’ve created so many cool things while I’m out running and had so many good ideas. That’s great. Yeah. But it’s just taking yourself out.
38:02 I love just running down by the river.
38:04 There’s really very many people down there.
38:07 And it’s also something my partner and I do and something we connected over is running together. Sometimes we’ll run together with our music on and do our own thing. And then sometimes
38:16 we’ll say, “No music today. We’re going to talk to each other. We’re going to enjoy what’s going on around us. We’re going to do it together and be present.
38:25 Um, both are awesome and just like the art, just like the music, definitely healing properties, and definitely some with somewhere I can escape to. Like,
38:34 it’s always there. I always know I can put my shoes on, I can go out the door, I might hate it for the first 10 minutes, but after that, I feel
38:43 And when you come back, you might have only run for 10k or whatever, but you feel like you’re the champion of the world,
38:50 right? you do. So, it’s flowing through your body, you know, you feel great. You get home and, you know, that’s right.
38:57 Yeah. Yeah. So, so sometimes sometimes you just need an activity to sort of, you know, for one of a better word,
39:04 distract you, get get yourself out of your head. And like you say, it can be something as as
39:11 non-taxing physically as art or listening to music, or it can be full hardcore intentional
39:19 hard work. But I mean, you know, you it could be for some people it could be reading books or it could be swimming.
39:25 You know, there’s there’s, you know, finding an activity or hobby. Find your thing.
39:29 Find your thing. Absolutely. Find your thing.
39:32 That’s a really useful healing being a technique.
39:36 I believe an underrated superpower is being to be able to be in your own company. Yeah. And feel good.
39:44 Mhm. Definitely an underrated superpower is definitely being alone, being in your own company and being okay with it.
39:51 Yeah. Learning learning self- resilience.
39:53 And that doesn’t even mean to be doing an activity like we talked about. It might just be sitting pottering around home all day by yourself.
40:02 Mhm.
40:02 And and just okay in your own company and in your own space. I think that’s a really I really really really enjoy it.
40:10 But I think it’s quite a superpower. I agree. I absolutely agree. So, um,
40:18 thinking back, um, a little bit to, you know, when you got out and and you were discovering all these all these things.
40:29 Um, but you had, you said you, you know, you you left, you must have still had
40:36 glimpses of fear and doubt. And you know what what helped you learn to trust
40:43 yourself again and sort of determine well this is group think and this is me you know is there was there anything
40:50 specifically that you did that helped man that’s a really really really good question
40:58 I’m not sure there was anything in particular I was just ready to move on like I as I said before I just had
41:05 enough of the [__] and I it’s the best way I can put it. Yeah. There’s just more to this.
41:12 And having great friends and having this like it just didn’t make sense that I was somehow better than these people. Yeah.
41:18 And that these awesome people who have been in my life who are my great friends Mhm.
41:23 weren’t it it just didn’t correlate. It didn’t make sense.
41:28 Mhm. Um, was there still fear there that I’ll be moving away from something and my life’s going to fall apart and I
41:36 might die and I’ll end up in some burning pit?
41:40 I really can’t remember, right?
41:42 But I was just I felt free. Obviously, there was things I had to work through like I talked about. There was things going on, but outside of that, it’s just like there’s more to this.
41:54 Bring it on. Mhm.
41:56 Um, that’s great. Yeah.
41:59 So there were every things everyday things that came that became a car a part of your recovery you know like the
42:07 running um like the the music and the art. What about um
42:15 what about your family? What what happened there with relationships and how did you reconcile with what you were
42:23 you know you’re now making a conscious decision to not be part of this. How did you how did you deal with your family?
42:29 Yeah, me and my brother I have an older brother. We left at about the same time.
42:34 Um, never had discussion about it. It just sort of happened.
42:39 Always had a great relationship with my parents. They continued to be part of the church and our relationship never
42:46 changed. I don’t remember ever being a conversation about I’m going to do this now. it just
42:55 sort of evolved into that and they respected the decision I made and they
43:02 didn’t push and pull and try and bring me back in. Mhm.
43:06 Um, as as I said before, everyone’s experience is so different as to how their family reacts.
43:13 probably I’m going to say because of the the family environment we had and how our upbringing was,
43:21 there was a level of respect and understanding that they could see that I was just doing me. Mhm. I wasn’t out there.
43:30 Yeah.
43:30 How did how how do they feel now that you’re doing all this advocacy? Well, my parents have also left. They left um nearly two years ago.
43:38 Oh, wow. That’s awesome.
43:39 Yeah, that’s very awesome. um something that great that’s come out of but it was a yeah you
43:46 people need to come to that decision by themselves. You can’t make someone from your experience also. You can’t make
43:54 someone leave a high control environment or a group. That’s a decision you need to make and you can
44:01 be there to show them what’s possible, but you can’t directly save them or take them out.
44:08 And I would like to think me standing up as who I am and putting the message out that I put
44:16 out. And I said this on um Sam Cellers’s podcast as well because she asked me a very similar question. What was the the
44:24 thing that came out of this? And it was it was great because I’d like to think that me putting out this message possibly helped influence their decision.
44:34 Mhm.
44:34 Not that I sat them down and said, “I would like you to do X, Y, and Z.” But to see that
44:41 the harm the harm that I had endured,
44:50 not only being part of that group, but after I had left the group
44:57 and finally recognizing and talking about it, possibly made people understand
45:05 that they’re not safe environments to be in. Mhm.
45:09 Did you I was Yeah, I was indeently assaulted by an
45:16 ex-worker after I left the group and I didn’t tell anybody. Right.
45:22 Only talked about it about two years ago. Mhm.
45:26 I fought with it in my mind for a long time and tried to work out make it that it wasn’t that which is very common. Mhm.
45:37 Cuz I was embarrassed by it, particularly being a male, as we talked about. Mhm.
45:43 To wrestle with that and then put it out there, I think, made those close to me realize that these environments aren’t
45:51 safe and the behaviors that everyone participates in and the ideologies that everyone clings on to and follows,
46:00 that is a symptom of it and I was harmed. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
46:07 Absolutely. So, we’re we’re sort of coming towards the last sort of portion of the the podcast now.
46:14 Um, if someone listening to this right now is at the
46:21 beginning of their of this process of leaving, what would you want them to know? What helped most for you?
46:32 I feel now there’s so much more information and support
46:40 out there now than there was even five years ago. Yeah. Yeah. It’s about building community now.
46:49 It’s again everyone’s experience within those groups have been so different. So what people’s needs are are not always the same.
46:57 Yeah. But I feel the best thing you can do is there are people to reach out to. Now it doesn’t have to be someone people who have been
47:05 part of the same group. There’s definitely services and things out there that are available for for that
47:12 connect with people who haven’t been part of the same group you’re part of. Mh.
47:16 But also I feel it’s about creating relationships and finding people and friends that have never been
47:24 part of these groups is so healthy. Mhm.
47:27 to sort of that’s always going to be in your life. It’s never going to go away that you were in this group and these things happened and whatever. But
47:34 if you can have some people around you and some group and support around you of people that have never been part of any group like that or even part of the same
47:43 group as you, I find it’s very healthy to have a balance of both. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, that’s great. Does that make sense? Oh, yeah.
47:50 But also that I’m not saying that’s really easy to easy to do also. No, no, but there is help available. There’s people available. And there are people
47:59 out there who have been in the same group as you who can help you and support you and possibly lead you
48:06 in the right direction, whatever that is. But there good people out there. There are good people out there. There are. Yeah.
48:14 Um like, so um I’ve got three sort of quick questions that I want to ask you. Sort of rapidish fire.
48:24 If you if you could go back and speak to yourself on the day you left, what would you say?
48:32 You’re making the right decision. Even though it’s there’s going to be some wild stuff going to happen. You’re m
48:41 you’re doing it. You are making a choice for yourself.
48:45 Yeah, you have a choice in it. You are making a choice for yourself. That’s good.
48:54 If you had to name one thing that supported you the most, what would that be? Friends.
49:03 Nice. Worldly friends. Worldly friends.
49:09 And what would you like people to know about people leaving cults? you know, those those that haven’t never been in a cult, what what would you say to them?
49:23 That the harm is not always physical. I think sometimes it’s been glamorized a
49:29 bit much, that people are always physically harmed when they’re in cults, right? people aren’t also it’s it’s also
49:38 the indoctrination and the information and the um coercive control in the words can
49:46 sometimes have a massive effect on people as well.
49:49 It’s not just some physical things that have happened. Yeah.
49:52 Um yeah, the systems and the programming can have a lot of harm as well. It doesn’t necessarily have to be physical.
50:00 So yeah, there’s a lot of deprogramming that needs to be done.
50:04 Yeah. Um, yeah. On top of possibly other Yeah.
50:07 And and and one last thing, so if if if there’s any one thing that we’ve left out that you would like to say, what
50:16 what would it be? What what have we not talked about that you would like to leave with our listeners?
50:23 Um, we kind of touched on a little bit, but I think to the other fellow advocates out there as well, it’s quite
50:31 a it’s quite a hard thing to do. Um, I know some people do it for a job, but there’s a number of us who don’t. It’s
50:39 just something we want to help in. And it can be quite a draining and hard space to be in. And sometimes you can feel quite alone
50:46 when there’s not many of you doing the same thing. And it’s quite sometimes quite easy to get annoyed about it. Um
50:55 but it’s about looking looking after yourself as well. It is a lonely space.
51:00 So just be kind to yourself. And when you find those people that you connect with, like hold them tight. Mhm.
51:08 When that you won’t vibe with everyone, but there’ll be people that you’ll vibe with and feel Yeah. they’re quite quite likeminded.
51:16 Um Yeah. But just don’t wear yourself out as well. Yeah, you can feel alone at times, but there are we’ve Yeah, we’ve
51:25 all felt it. It’s just be be careful with yourself as well.
51:29 Take time out as well because it can be quite overwhelming sometimes you’re hearing and taking on a lot of stuff.
51:35 And if you do that continually over and over and over and over, it can it can wear on you. Yeah. Yeah. So, caution and rest.
51:45 Absolutely.
51:45 Yeah. That’s wonderful. Thank you so much, Tristan. Um, it’s really, it’s been awesome listening to your story.
51:53 Um, so that’s us wrapping up another episode of Unspun. Um, a huge thanks to you, Tristan. I’m sure your story is
52:00 going to inspire a lot of people, um, as it has me. Uh, thank you for spending time with us. We know these stories can
52:07 stir a lot and we’re grateful you trusted us enough to listen. Unspinning these stories takes courage to speak, to
52:16 listen, and to feel. Thank you.
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